However, when my wife finally agreed to my converting the garage in to a "man cave" I decided to do things properly and get a proper split air-conditioning unit installed in the garage (as it was still) and four bedrooms. Yes, overkill I know, but they work well, and they serve to provide energy efficient heating in the winter. I know running air-conditioning has a cost, but it is well worth it for a good nights sleep, and being on a green electricity tariff it is not like I am contributing to climate change either.
Anyway, this was nearly four years ago now, and they have worked pretty well. Only one unit has developed a fault in that time, which is now fixed.
There can be only one!
Interestingly, a few years ago, someone commented on a picture or video I posted that as I had more than one unit I would need planning permission! Now, planning permission is not something I have had to worry about before, and I assumed only related to actual building work, not simply an electrical appliance. Indeed, the air-conditioning installer had not heard of any need for planning permission and he has installed thousands of these.
When do you need planning permission?
It seems any development needs planning permission, and a development is almost anything that changes the exterior appearance of the property. There are then a long list of permitted developments that allow things without planning permission, and these then have conditions and rules.
So, yes, an air-conditioning unit needs planning permission, but it can come under one of the permitted developments under Part 14 G of the The Town and Country Planning (General Permitted Development) (England) Order 2015. This lists some rules, like a maximum of one unit, not if you have a wind turbine, outside unit less than 0.6m³, not within 1m of boundary, not on a pitched roof, not within 1m of edge of flat roof - pretty simple stuff to be honest. The big one is that there can be only one (but there is a catch, read on).
If you look at air-conditioning installer web sites you will see a lot of companies reference this order and explain that you can have one unit installed without planning permission - yay!
There is a catch!
There is, however, a catch, and it is one even the council seem to be unaware of most of the time, and that is G3(a) states "the air source heat pump is used solely for heating purposes". That's right, an air-conditioning unit that cools, or heats and cools, is not allowed under this permitted development, so even if you have only one, it needs planning permission! Air-conditioning installer web sites do not mention that gem.
Does anyone care?
Well, to be honest, I assumed it would not matter. I mean who really cares?
Well, it turns out someone did! After three and a half years someone, anonymously, complained to the council that we had no planning permission. I mean what the? THREE AND A HALF YEARS!
And no, they won't tell me who complained. Oddly they did think one unit was allowed. I queried this on the basis that maybe they were confused about what I had - after all the permitted development is all about micro generation and renewable energy and wind turbines even, so maybe what I have has nothing to do with part 14 G? They confirmed that air-conditioning units did come unit air source heat pump micro generation! They also confirmed that if it did not then it would not come under any other permitted development so would need planning permission anyway! They then agreed that even one was not permitted if it cools as well as heats!
Interestingly, if it had been over four years after installation it would not matter. Apparently (thanks Neil for finding the reference, here) there is a time limit on these things. That makes the three and a half year delay mentioning it even more odd and annoying.
What next?
Well, I get a formal notice that I am in breach of planning regulations, and a questionnaire. Oddly they said I would have six months to remove them and asked daft questions like how long it will take and why, to which my answer was basically "every last minute of the six months you allow me, Why? Because I like my air-conditioning!". What kind of daft question was that anyway?
The only real option I have, if I want to keep them (duh!), is to apply for retrospective planning permission!
Applying for planning permission...
This is where the real bureaucracy starts! The council web site leads to an on-line application form, which is clear as mud. I eventually managed to make a filing, and paid the few hundred pounds for the application. I had to upload some "plans", a site plan notably, and some pictures. So, I uploaded a google earth view of the house with some arrows added and some pictures. Simple...
After a while they come back and say they need a proper site plan on a recognised scale. Hmm, but hang on, the formal notice I got saying I did not have planning permission had one of those. So I could literally send back to the council the plan that the council had sent me. They clearly have a plan of the "site" on record anyway, but I had to go through this fiasco.
Then they said they needed the size of the outside units. So I measured carefully and sent a detailed email.
Then they said that was not good enough, they needed the photographs annotated with the sizes. Really? OK, I added some arrows to the photographs with the same numbers that I had put in the email!
At this point they felt I had actually provided enough for the application to be submitted or some such, and then I am told the planner is not happy and they want a proper elevation drawing of the sides of the house on a recognised scale showing the position of the units...
OK, losing my patience and the will to live, I engaged an architect for another few hundred pounds to come and measure and do a proper drawing. He did a nice job, and they really could not argue with a proper architect's drawing could they. That worked!
Council planning web site.
At this point the planning application is published on their web site and neighbours are written to. Seems simple enough.
So I kept an eye on the site. It was not made clear to me how this works - do they have a set of rules for such things to which I have to comply, or do I just get permission if nobody objects? It seems a bit like the latter, almost.
Now I know!
Well, there was an objection filed, and guess what - objections to planning permission are not anonymous, so I know exactly who is complaining. The issue is not the units high up on the wall facing the road but the ones on the side of the house only visible from that neighbour (and only one can been seen as trees/bushes in the way of the other one).
Now, these are neighbours who are not usually a problem. We don't know them that well, beyond popping round for drinks at Christmas, etc. But they are the first to come round if they have any complaint, no matter how small. So I am shocked that this one point has taken them so long to raise as an issue! To be honest, we cannot be 100% sure they are the anonymous complainer and not just that they decided to complain once they got the letter from the council.
Their main complaint - the noise! These are really quiet units. No way the noise could be an issue surely, and at the far end of their garden behind some trees/bushes even.
Investigating the objection
So, the council investigate the objection...
One of the first steps was that the person investigating decided to visit the neighbour to hear how loud it was, and told me I did not need to be there. This seems odd, as surely they need me to ensure the air-conditioning is running when they visit. Indeed, a lot of the time the air-conditioning is "at temperature" and not running. If I am not there, then it may be totally off.
Then she said that she needed to check with environmental health to check what noise level is acceptable. But it seems she had taken no measurements or anything.
She then came back to say that I needed to have a noise consultant make a report! And yes, a noise report for all of the units, not just those facing that neighbour. Yet more cost, so I asked what levels were acceptable (in case I need to order a replacement unit that is quieter).
To my surprise she came back and said no noise report was needed, but I had to confirm the units met: "Noise resulting from the use of the plant, machinery or equipment hereby approved shall not exceed a level of 5 dB(A) below the existing background noise level (or 10 dB(A) below if there is a particular tonal quality) when measured according to British Standard BS4142: 2014 at the boundary of any adjoining or nearby noise sensitive premises."
Now call me a cynic here, but the only way I can confirm that is by getting a report from a noise consultant.
I had an alternative idea - I got the spec sheet for the air-conditioning unit and measured the distance to the boundary and sent that asking if it met the above requirement.
Time running out
Then, out of the blue, I am told time is running out - they apparently have a deadline by which to make a determination, and it was coming up! So I had a choice. They would either give me planning permission which was conditional on it meeting that noise spec. Or I could grant an extension to allow them to play ping pong with environmental health.
I double checked, and there is no chance of penalties or fines or anything. So basically I have said give me the permission, and they did. I now have planning permission!
This now leaves the ball in their (or neighbour's) court - they can complain it is too loud and they can get their noise report to prove it. If it is, and they prove it, then all I have to do is turn it off until I change to a quieter unit or re-positioning of the unit so quieter at the boundary.
In practice, as I say, these units are really quiet, so I seriously doubt they fail to meet the noise requirement.
Pondering the stupidity of this law
Having read a bit more, I wonder is there a way I could have done this better? To be clear I have not tried these and do not know the legality of them.
The simplest seems to be to get a shed lean-to on the house. This seems to be something that does not need planning permission from what I can see. Then, in the shed, install outside units for the air conditioning. This is something that does not change the external appearance of the proper and so is not a development and so does not need planning permission - no more than any other work inside the house like installing a new fridge. And also, nobody knows you have air-conditioning units so won't complain!
Another idea was to install one heating only unit as per permitted development. The air-con installer said these units can be set heat only. Then, as a separate thing on a later date you "modify" your existing installation to be heating and cooling. This modification is not something that changes the external appearance of the property and so not a development and so does not need planning permission. If I was only installing one unit I'd rely on the confusion of the council thinking there can be one unit allowed, but have this as a fall back, stating what dates the heating only install was done, and what date the modification was done. I'd probably even make a video of my making the modification. I cannot see how that falls foul of the rules at all, but does rather make a mockery of the rules.
Finally, and most iffy of ideas, was if you want more than one unit. Install one heating only (permitted development). Then install a second along side that is cooling only. Now, this does not break the permitted development on the first unit as there is only one heating unit still, but the cooling one needs planning permission - except there is a general permitted development for modifications to the properly using same materials. I tried that one as a reason to not need planning permission for cooling only and was told "I doubt your house is made of the same materials as the air-conditioning unit". However, because you do have one unit (permitted, heating only), the second (cooling only) unit is using the same materials so should come under that general permitted development. Add a 3rd and 4th as needed on the same basis. Then, one day, change all to heating and cooling as a separate step which does not change external appearance and so is not a development. Would that fly I wonder? If so, the rules really are stupid.
Anyway, what I can say from practical experience, simply budget for planning permission and go ahead without. If you are lucky they will assume one unit is allowed, or nobody will complain for four years. If you are unlucky you have to apply for permission, which seems simple enough! Well, that's my view anyway, even if not my usual "doing it right" viewpoint, sorry.
Conclusion
What a waste of time and money - actually not that much of my time to be honest - and now we have permission. Why did they bother?
We did think the neighbour may be trying to sell, and concerned over the air-con. My house is not the one over which they should be concerned to be honest. But if that was their plan, now they have a neighbour's planning permission "on file" and that will show in a search, so making it far more obvious to any potential buyer. Ooops.
You could install a Multi split external unit... then you would only have one on the wall. I think they can do up to 6 internal units... pipe runs may be problematic though.
ReplyDeleteHaving one on the wall would not help as still must be "heating only" to avoid planning permission.
DeleteHmm, I recently got a really cheap portable aircon to help keep the bedroom cool. It's veryt noisy so it's good for cooling the room before bedtime but can't be left on. And it's only barely powerful enough to cool a medium sized bedroom.
ReplyDeleteBut even the small relief the last few days has been very welcome.
Based on that I was starting to think that maybe a proper aircon would be money well spent, but this post has completely put me off doing that (plus it didn't really occur to me until now that the only real place to put the outlet would be on the front of the house and even I'd be complaining about it being there!)
Why am I not surprised at the absurdity of everything to do with a Local Council?
ReplyDeleteLol, you'll almost certainly have found the culprit if they have objected.
ReplyDeleteWhen I did the PP for my garage, I had the chap two doors down complain and say I shouldn't block the alley with scaffolding - of course what he doesn't know is that part of the alley is my property.
I wonder why it is necessary for the objector's details to be made public on planning applications? Surely it matters not who is objecting, but rather their grounds for objection. I can't help but feel that this is not consistent with GDPR requirements. Why should people be forced to publicly declare who they are (as opposed to declaring to the planning office for administrative purposes) if their grounds for objection is independent of their identity?
DeleteI think you need to know who objected for when you present evidence to counter their objection. For example if someone objects on noise grounds but the guy is 4 doors down you can say that they are too far away to be impacted.
DeleteWhy that info is totally public and not just made available to the applicant, I don't know
My air con outside unit is stood on slabs on the ground. This was partly to keep it out of the sun in an almost permanently shaded corner below a fence, so it runs more efficiently. But it is also so that it is a lot less obvious, unless you go into my garden you can't even see it, and the shrubs in the garden shield the noise. Even when it is running full blast it is difficult to hear it at all outside my garden. The annual air con maintenance guy loves it to, he doesn't need ladders to get at it.
ReplyDeleteIt was me that commented on one of your pics ages ago about only one being allowed, I came across this after getting it installed myself, spurred on by seeing your blogs on the subject.
ReplyDeleteThere is another relatively simple solution though, get a "multisplit" system installed where one outdoor unit powers multiple indoor units.
I guess the "heating only" aspect is aimed at allowing Air to Water heat pumps, which also attract RHI payments.
Multi-split did not work (see other comment below) but anyway would not help with the "heating only" requirement.
DeleteActually, surely you could argue they are always used for heating purposes - it's just that you are heating outside with heat from your house!
ReplyDeleteI think they would then apply the same logic that is used for TV licensing. If you can call it logic. Derangement might be a better way of putting it.
DeleteIt might also have helped that you can get "multi-split" systems, where multiple internal units share a single exterior heat rejection unit - then, you could probably have heated/cooled all the rooms with one. Install it in September or October, as a heating only unit, then six months later "decide" to do the "modification" to enable cooling as well?
ReplyDeleteYes, all very stupid and pointless, and crazy that the noise regs are so subjective and unclear.
We did that initially - but they cannot cope with one room heating and one cooling, which happened way more often than you would expect. Shame, as they could just move heat from one room to another and be even more efficient!
DeleteDaikin VRV systems can do exactly that, move the heat from one room to the other, with one single external unit.
DeleteThe "heating only" thing, as mentioned above, seems a little silly, you're always heating something and cooling something else. You can cool outdoors while heating indoors, or cool indoors while heating outdoors. The net effect is always heating - there are losses in the process - so arguably it's always "heating".
By the way, whoever did the brickwork blocking that door up behind tbe air con units did an awful job. The bricks aren't laid straight and there is mortar slathered all over the place. Definitely not a proper brickie.
ReplyDeleteThat was done like 20 years ago, and yes, not good.
DeleteHonestly, those units deserve some sort of award for ugliness anyway, regardless of whatever noise they make. It appears everyone who makes AC units expects them to be installed on rooftops, out of sight.
ReplyDelete(A shame you can't stick a housing around them really, perhaps open at the top, just to hide the 60s industrial metal horror show a bit. But no doubt that would require *more* planning permission.)
I have memories of a sequel to N. K. Jemisin's _The Hundred Thousand Kingdoms_ in which it was noted that in that novel, painting your house any colour other than white was heresy and would probably result in summary execution. Now *that's* a planning law with teeth.
It would make a lot of sense if they designed units to go in a loft with a vent to outside or something... It would also make a lot of sense if they did a simple wooden slatted enclosure so they could neatly be positioned at ground level and not look too bad. Shame really.
DeleteA ground source heat pump might look neater than air source, but you'd have to dig a lot of a garden up to lay pipes in a trench. And I have no idea what you can get as basic air con units with a ground source.
DeleteInteresting is the neighbour the one with two satellite dishes?
ReplyDeleteSome councils only allow one dish without planning permission but add anymore and you need it.....
We came up against this "development or not" question 20 years ago when we bought our current house. It was at the time two flats, and we wanted to convert it back into one house.
ReplyDeleteThe council were quite useless at providing information so I went independent. The relevant legislation says (something like), "For the avoidance of doubt, splitting one dwelling into two *is* development.", but of course left the opposite case completely up in the air.
Happily we managed to find a test case which someone had brought, where it was ruled that joining two dwellings into one is not development, so we were able to keep the council quite out of it.
Someone needs to invent air conditioning that does not require holes in the wall for air circulation. You can buy portable air heaters, we need portable air coolers.
ReplyDeleteI suspect all planning legislation is crazy. I was told I had to supply a photograph of a non-existent painted fence, or the planning application wouldn't be considered. Oddly, the local fencing companies wouldn't allow me to paint one of their products in order to photograph it. I had to drive around town looking for a similar-coloured, similar-style fence to photograph...
ReplyDeleteOne new one been put up next to us and it not so much when it’s running more when it’s on or off if the wind is blowing. We get a high pitched sound which is extremely annoying and the unit is in our face every time we enter our garden. And can’t sit on our patio as a result. People have no thought or respect on the impact of these things before installing. Perhaps it would be neighbourly to discuss plans of work that will impact on neighbours. Bit it seems we live in a “me” world now.
DeleteThat sounds odd. Obviously we made sure what we installed was quiet in the first place!
DeleteInconsiderate neighbours put up a unit opposite our patio, eyesore comes to mind, also opposite our bedroom. It makes a high pitched noise whether on or off when wind blows through the fan. Although not VERY loud it’s extremely annoying when sitting outside. We were not approached by our neighbours and when we approached them when it was being installed, to ask if they could reposition it elsewhere, they scuttled indoors. Why can’t people be more neighbourly.. I have come to the conclusion that people have no thought/respect or even care what impact things can have on others. We live in a “ME” world I fear now. Upset and disgruntled...😩
ReplyDeleteIf it loses it's gas (because the nuts have loosened)then it will stop working. When they replace it they might consider putting it somewhere more considerate.
DeleteIf it was within the last 4 years, just call/email the council asking if they have planning permission for them :-)
DeleteIf it loses it's gas (because the nuts have loosened)then it will stop working. When they replace it they might consider putting it somewhere more considerate.
DeleteHow ironic, you spent most of your comment blethering on about yourself. Tone deaf.
DeleteI wonder if the 'heating only' restriction is because in the summer the neighbours will have open windows.
ReplyDeleteGreat article!
ReplyDeleteNice Post
ReplyDeleteWhat kind of temperature air is emitted from these outdoor compressor units? My neighbour has installed a 6kw mitsubishi air con unit within 1.8m of 2 or our opening windows. I have concerns over it pumping hot air into our house. Do you think this could be a problem. The unit is only 25cm from the boundary line, facing the side of our house.
ReplyDeleteThat close would need planning permission.
DeleteI've had a 3.5kw unit installed for 15yrs. Never needed planning permission.
ReplyDeleteIn the UK, you do need planning permission for an air conditioning unit that cools.
DeleteThe fact you have not been caught does not change that.
If you manage 4 years without being caught you will be OK though.
I had mind for 3½ years before someone reported it and I had to get planning permission.
Unreal - with climate change our summers are getting extremely hot. From government reports one of the major risk factors is that we as a country aren't equipped to cope with the heat.
ReplyDeleteThe most efficient systems are split, they are far better for the environment. Neighbour should consult each other but eventually every house is going to need cooling, just like it needs heating. The rules need to change.
I'm thankful that companies have started selling dual hose units the UK. We can just drill 2 6 inch holes into each room and use these units. Far cheaper, albeit, louder and takes up more space.
The whole objection system really needs to focus on improving energy efficiency. Anything that does that needs to be prioritized. Things looking ugly is a non issue. Noise is an issue due to sleep disturbance, but typically studies show that white noise is beneficial for sleep.
@Drush - I've been looking recently and only found the odd (sold out) dual hose unit on Amazon. I don't suppose you're able to recall which companies you've seen selling the dual hose?
DeleteI can’t find portable twin hose ones either. I did convert a portable to twin hose with an old kitchen bowl, gaffer tape and a second tube…but you can buy wall mounted units that are all in one, sit inside and require two holes in the wall for the in and out vents. Noisier, because the compressor is inside, but may be of help
DeleteMy neighbour put one up the day someone was viewing our house for sale - didn't see him for dust. Ugly noisy things and you are surprised that your neighbour had concerns over three of the buggers, when you hadn't warned him first?
ReplyDeleteThere was only one their side, they can’t see it from their garden, nor from the road, and it is very quiet. You have to stand right at the far end of their garden to even tell it is on. And they took over 3 years to mention it. So yes!
DeleteThere was only one their side, they can’t see it from their garden, nor from the road, and it is very quiet. You have to stand right at the far end of their garden to even tell it is on. And they took over 3 years to mention it. So yes!
ReplyDeleteNot sure why you quoted my exact comment, but, err, ok...
DeleteReturning to this post having looked up planning permission, first of all this is the clearest article I can find online about what the planning permission rules for aircon are. Far clearer than local council, UK government, or aircon installer web sites, so thanks for that.
ReplyDeleteMy aircon installers told me I didn't need planning permission as a) I only have one unit (wrong, it cools so not covered) and b) it's sat on the ground not fastened to the house so wouldn't need planning permission anyway (also wrong).
But I'm now well over 4 years since installation, it's been about 7 years now so all this is irrelevant. And I do still have the paperwork from installation so I can prove it.
I agree this is a great article! Can I ask why you’d need planning permission if the unit is on the ground and not fastened to the house? We put ours on the wall and had no idea we needed planning permission until last month! Luckily we are 3 weeks away from hitting the 4 year mark but interested if we ever decide to move house!
ReplyDeleteThat probably won't occur in say the initial a half year of claiming another air conditioner yet after that measure of time, such issues are essentially unavoidable.
ReplyDeleteHey dude. I'm in a similar situation and wondering about the noise aspect of things. Do you know what the dB(A) noise output on your units was? I've got a couple and one is 52 dB(A) and the other is 60 dB(A) as the spec says, "taken 1.0m below the outdoor unit".
ReplyDeleteMy closest neighbour is at least 3 metres away from the units (and he says he cannot hear a thing when they are on) so I'm wondering what your spec was and the distance from your neighbour was?
@coolbloke1324 how it all went for you? did you get the planning permission and did you have any problems? I'm in the process if applying for mine, I have 2 on the side and one at the back, and one neighbour complained so I wonder what the outcome will be but they at least 1.8m from boundary and even further away from her hallway/toilet window. and her house is much lower so they are in the roof level ....
DeleteI got retrospective planning permission.
Delete@Anonymous: Posted an update at the end of this thread under "Rob Evans". You can read all about it there :)
DeleteI am looking at this in 2022 and have actually adopted the "shed lean-to" idea. Ironically, the planning consultant I have initially reached out to has stated that the installation of the condenser units inside the shed lean-to would (surprise surprise) require planning permission! This is despite the fact that the external appearance of the property is not altered at all!
ReplyDeleteThis is the clearest piece of information on this subject on the whole of the internet. Thanks for taking the time. I got a multi split LG unit installed thinking it would not need permission since there is only one external box within 0.6 cu.m volume. It is also installed 1.2m away from the property boundary on my wall 1m above the ground. On the other other end of the 1.2m is my neighbour's garage wall, so it can't be seen from this neighbour's window, though the adjacent neighbour may be able to see it from their upstairs windows. Also realized that remortgage process may be affected by this installation as the lender may ask for a certificate of lawfulness when the time comes. I'm thinking of setting the dip switch in the unit to 'Heat Only' mode hoping then this would fall under permitted development.
ReplyDeleteGreat article exactly what I was looking for. You have confirmed that aircon needs permission. I'm looking to fit 2 x outside multi units so 8 rooms can be cooled. I'm going to steam ahead and gamble under the 4 year rule. I have already claimed land under 12 year adverse possession so this is "short" in comparison. :D Great article
ReplyDeleteUpdate to what I wrote. I spoke to my local planning team and they confirmed that aircon and heat pumps in their view are interchangeable despite the exact legislation stating “heating only”, this is a moot point. So aircon is allowed under permitted development. So for a single unit that is fine and if I want this in writing they will issue a LDC at the cost of £110 should this ever gets challenged in the future i.e. during convacying if I sell the property. However if I require more than one unit then I will need to apply for full planning permission. I hope this helps others.
ReplyDeleteFinal update, the council called me back and said they gave me the wrong advise yesterday and in fact it has caused some debate in their office. They have now determined by head of planning that even one aircon unit is not allowed under permitted development and requires a full planning application. They are aware that there are many people who have them installed but are not actively looking unless a complaint is made. So unless you plan to sell your property within 4 years I would go ahead and install them and if someone complains then apply retrospectively. The websites stating that they fall under section G are incorrect.
ReplyDeleteI concur with @Jason. After a bit of a fight with the local planning office, they said ALL air con units require planning permission. I finally got retrospective permission but ONLY AFTER REMOVING 3 units and replacing with a single triple-output unit within their noise requirements. Had to pay for a noise consultant to measure ambient noise for 24 hours, architects to draw up the plans, and now another £4k to have the old units removed and replaced with a single unit that can pipe to all three indoor locations.
ReplyDeleteLong story short, if you want air-con, hide the outdoor unit so it cannot be seen from the outside, do not believe ANYONE who says it's within regs to have 1 unit etc etc. It's not and in our case, no complaint was made, only an "enquiry" as to if we had planning for the units or not. Regardless of the fact that no complaint was made, the council proceeded with enforcement threat if I didn't get them under proper planning.
The whole process is complex, time consuming, frustrating and ultimately, you are better off making sure no-one ever sees the changes so you cannot get even an "enquiry". Either that, or don't install them. Installers all think 1 unit is within permitted development but every council so far people have interacted with disagree. I also tried to explain that they are heat pumps and both heat and cool but to no avail.
Because of this and the general decline of the NHS, the economy and various other factors like inflation, we have decided to move to Portugal. Purchased a house there last month. Gonna just remove the air-con from the current UK house and take the units with me and re-install them in Portugal. I'm done with this shit.
Sound logic. The planning officer also agreed that heat pumps can be used to cool and aircon can be used to heat. However this still does not fall under section G despite their similarities. The logic I came too was that when a heat pump is installed then an existing heating system is removed e.g. oil/gas boiler etc.. however aircon is only ever installed in addition to keeping the existing system. So the intent of G is to decarbonise and adding aircon is the opposite. The best advice is to just plow ahead but bear in mind you may have to apply for PP if you are challenged within 4 years.
DeleteThat makes no sense. It *is* a heat pump, and the exception makes not mention of removing alternative heating as a criteria. The only issue should be the "heating only", and an air con can be set by the installer to be "heating only" AFAIK. But yeh, planning permission is probably sensible in most/all cases. Of course one could argue that even in cooling mode it is "heating", just that it is "heating" the outside air.
DeleteAs for noise, I basically got as far as saying "I am sure it complies, if you believe it does not then you get a noise consultant", and they accepted it. I was able to confirm that is it turned out later that it did not comply I would have to go through the process again and make changes, but no "fine" or anything, so on that basis I said "it complies". The neighbours (that raised the complaint) were not going to pay for a noise consultant to prove otherwise and neither were the council.
DeleteWe are on the same page that aircon and heat pumps are effectively the same technology, even the planning office agrees however they have determined that “aircon” is not permitted under section G, in my head it is very clear that aircon primarily used to cool otherwise why are you fitting it in the first place. I understand both sides of the debate, you can simply fit one unit and argue its an ASHP if challenged and I think that has merit but lets be clear the reality is you are not using it to only heat but to cool. If you have more than one unit then this is not defensible for ground G as it stipulates you are only allowed 1 unit anyway. The point that is being made is simply fit the unit(s) on the basis that it could be challenged within 4 years, but the council will only enforce if raised to their attention. Basically they don’t care unless someone complains then the burden of proof will sit with you to convince them otherwise. This has clearly happened to you hence the blog but other will “get away with it” or ignorance is-bliss.
Delete> "I am sure it complies, if you believe it does not then you get a noise consultant", and they accepted it
ReplyDeleteI am jealous! :p The person I was dealing with wouldn't take any face-value assertions and wanted a noise consultant's report before I could proceed. They rejected the initial planning application without it saying they believed it would be too noisy even though no-one had complained and the damn things are whisper quiet in normal operation.
At any rate, I'm glad it's all over. They gave me three years to comply with the updated application so I've got a bit of time to remove them from my uk house and take them over to portugal in the car. I'm probably gonna put the UK house on the market as well. Would prefer to sell before the catastrophe that is the UK economy eats a good chunk of my equity. :(
I love this country but I'm very frustrated by the unreasonable overly bureaucratic council and inability to use common sense instead of heavy handed approaches. I honestly couldn't understand why an enquiry about PP on my property was seen as equivelant to a complaint. At one point on the phone with the girl doing the enforcement, she even slipped up and said, "well there was a complaint about your air-con, that's why we are doing this" and I said "no, there was an enquiry, no complaint has been registered, check your records". Her response was dismissive.
What about commercial buildings - do the same panning rules apply?
ReplyDeleteIt's worse... you won't want to put anything on a commercial property without speaking to the local council first. They can advise ahead of time what you'll need to do.
DeleteBut commercial properties are covered in AC units and I know for a fact that in most cases they don’t seek planning permission.
DeleteWhat happens after the four years? From a plan of perspective is it like you don’t have anything? This is important as I have an AC units which was installed over 4 years ago but have also installed an ASHP - air to water I assume from what’s been said above that that would be permitted??
ReplyDeleteOnce 4 years has passed without any inquiry or complaint the units are essentially "part" of the permitted development of the property, so you will not have to remove them. One of mine was passed 4 years and the council removed it from the inquiry so I didn't have to account for it at all.
DeleteI believe that UK air source heat pumps won't do cooling as well, which means they can be VAT exempt, however some are only a firmware flash or a config but change away from matching their EU cousins, which do do cooling 😁
ReplyDelete(I'm Owen Smith, but named comments fail most of the time for me these days.) Coming back to this , I see a comment about measuring the noise level 1.0m below the outdoor unit. That would be difficult for mine, it's at ground level on paving slabs. It's also screened by an approx 5 feet tall fence and some shrubs. It only gets direct sun in early evenings and only in summer (great for thermal efficiency), and you cannot see it at all unless you go into my garden and half way up by back path. The noise is pretty well masked by the fence and shrubs too, and I'm past 10 years since installation.
ReplyDeleteOne strange thing - nobody has mentioned if the installer has any liability for installing an aircon unit without planning permission, and without notifying the customer that planning is required.
ReplyDeleteThe legislation linked to above seems to point to ten years rather than four apart from in Wales. Is that a recent change?
ReplyDeleteSeriously, FFS, did they change it?
ReplyDeleteYes! I looked into it and it was part of a new Bill very recently. Doh! You could just say you use the heat element if questioned? Not sure how it could be proved otherwise?
ReplyDeleteVery interesting post and glad I found it. I am in a conservation area and more through ignorance installed 3 external condensers. One on a garden office and two hidden down the side of the house. None are visible and 2 of the 3 are over 4 years since install. The 3rd will hit 4 years in Jan 25. I will soon want to replace the gas boiler with an air to water ASHP so am a little confused what I need to "declare" to the planning department or if once all existing units are over 4 years can i treat the boiler replacement to ASHP as permitted development? Any new development done now falls within the 10 year rule so would rather do it right this time around. Any experience of a similar scenario would be very interesting.
ReplyDeleteIgnoring the "heat only" issue for a moment, I have a multi-split installed over 20 years ago where the outdoor unit is actually 2 units factory built stacked together as if one (but can clearly see 2 fans on my Panasonic CS-MA125KE). Is this considered 1 unit or 2? They are likely to change the permitted development rules to allow 2 units (the industry consultation on this ended 5 months or so ago). So I ask in the hope that my "double" unit counts as 1 and a new ASHP would count as 2.
ReplyDelete